1,17 was GBP to EURO exchange rate. I thought alcohol vat of 5 euro per bottle is the vat.
Do I have to pay also the import VAT of 19%?
3 Likes
Theres alcohol tax (~13€ per litre pure alcohol) and you also have to pay Einfuhrumsatzsteuer (19%).
5 Likes
Holy Moly,
(((Bid price * 1,10 commission + shipping 30 pounds) * 1,17 currency exchange + alcohol vat 5 euros) * 1,19 import vat + 6 euro DHL settlement fee.
A 300 Pound botte is 500 Euro in the end.
It’s bid price * 1,7 = end price in euro.
4 Likes
That sounds about right.
2 Likes
It’s more like *1.55 + 65 euro. This difference matters as the variable part is more dominant for expensive bottles.
7 Likes
I don’t see where the last fix part should come from since currency conversion and import duty also apply to the shipping cost. The only more or less fix component is alcohol tax and DHL handling fee, but those are ~12€ and negligible in the overall equation.
If you want to make it more precise, it’s a hyperbolic function asymtotically approaching 1,53-ish
Edit: fixed the messed up the axis description
9 Likes
the more expensive the bottle is the less influence there is of the shipping and alcohol tax. But buying in UK, it would still be FX rate plus UK VAT.
the best solution would be a platform just connecting buyer and seller with VAT only on the fee
4 Likes
Shipping cost is also fixed per bottle, no matter if you need to add taxes to a fixed amount or not.
My intention was to make clear that there’s a variable factor (which seems to be 1.53) and a fixed factor; the latter is less relevant for expensive bottles.
3 Likes
That’s why you can directly add it to the hammer price. Just pretend the hammer price is x+30 GBP and go with the factor from there.
Edit: What is not included is the time and nerve factor… I’m under the impression RA has lost the majority of their EU buyers or they factor in the additional cost. Most bottles have been weaker on the hammer price, after cost it’s a less severe decline but the added hassle seems to have turned some buyers off. “The Last” finished at 750 GBP. Great for international buyers to have less competition from EU folks but bad for the sellers and the auction house, a cut from their share now goes to the authorities.
3 Likes
I’m well aware this works, my sole intention was to clarify the *1.7 factor is less accurate for more expensive bottles so folks can better calc the prices if they are interested, and I’ve given one way to estimate costs
It makes a difference for a 2k bottle if it’s *1.7 (3400 eur) vs *1.53+65 (which is 3130 Eur)
5 Likes
True. And I was refering to his example of a 300 GBP hammer price, where the 1,7 is quite accurate.
Anyhow, it seems things have stabilized for RA and the forecast of doom did not quite come true (yet?).
5 Likes
Stabilized?
I would say prices are dropping hard.
I saw a bottle of RA 1994 NY going for 150 gbp hammer price.
4 Likes
arriving at the shelf, “the last” would cost the EU buyer around 1,200€ and about the same in € for the UK buyer (20% vat),
shop offers are at 1,500€
Have not checked out if rum trades add vat (which probably they have to)
did check, it’s without as they are connecting buyer and seller; a way RA should investigate
4 Likes
That’s why prices are dropping (it’s EU insanity → overregulation, not the fault of RA):
"Important Information for France, Italy, Poland, Spain, Slovakia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Greece, Finland, Estonia, Sweden, Romania, Bulgaria & Slovenia
As a result of an EU-wide directive, we will no longer be able to ship items bought from our auctions to you (effective from 27 January 2023). "
But with x1,7 or x1,5+65 there are no bargains for me.
Was outbid yesterday and I’m not sorry about that.
We pay the same prices overall because the purchase costs have become very high. The auction price just looks cheaper.
6 Likes
I said “things have stabilized for RumAuctioneer” in terms of number of lots and composition of available lots. I was not talking about prices or the market developement in general. Sure the VAT story and as a consequence the lower hammer prices affect their income negatively, but so far the forecasted mass migration to other auction houses seems to have halted.
5 Likes
Yea, i misunderstood your posting 
5 Likes
That’s around 283€ for a EU buyer. Not necessarily a bargain. It’s offered at 299€ on eBay.
Just did a little browsing and I’m supprised:
The Caroni 21 is £410 → 682€
HV Amrut also £410 
HV TECA 2005 £391
Hampden 8 Marks Set £347 …holy moly, it’s easy to find it at 200-250€ on the continent. Must have been UK or international buyer.
So even in terms of prices it depends on how you look at it . Some strong, some weak examples.
6 Likes
I follow auctions since two years now and noticed that the summer months are not so good for sellers. But I also noticed that yesterday’s auction was not good at all in term of prices. There is a clear plunging of prices.
Even velier’s Caronis (not the most sought after) are about 25-35% cheaper than 8 months ago. For instance, (RX2222) was sold for 650 pounds instead of around 1k. The last Caroni was 25% « cheaper » at 750 pounds.
Is it good for us ? I think so. Price will go further down ? I really don’t know. Didn’t bought anything yesterday, so deep down I must think that the plunge will continue. Price will totally crash ? I’m shure it won’t be the case. At least for highly collectible bottles.
I must say that for me the new rules doesn’t change anything in term of final prices as I’m in Switzerland. With all taxes, change from pounds to Swiss franc, auction fees, shipping and extras, I count +35%. But we have here a VAT of 7,7%.
It seems that RT has still very high prices, didn’t looked recently. Maybe someone can tell ?
7 Likes
I must add that RA are not anymore displaying their past auctions (May and June) as they did since the beginning. Are they hoping that nobody will notice the price drop ?
4 Likes
I don’t know. If we assume the majority of RA’s audience is in Europe, I’d say prices after cost are flat or up. As @MoparRules pointed out:
That’s far away from a 25% decline. Part of the money just goes elsewhere and not to the seller. Like in the current housing market. Listings decrease in price, but interest rates go up. Overall it’s around the same cost to buy a house, just the proportion where the money goes (seller or bank) has shifted.
It’s all here:
7 Likes