Best rums by price categories

Ursprünglicher Ausgabepreis als Info in der Rum-Übersicht würde ich auch klasse finden. Hat man ja häufig nicht mehr konkret auf dem Schirm.

10 Likes

I always asked Oliver for more filtering options to do exactly that - analyzing what rum has the highest rating per price region. I did this a lot and you can do it now with the app, too! As a base you can use the community price paid for certain rums. If we define price categories, it’s easy to extract the Top10 of every segment!

4 Likes

No spiced, heavily dosed or white Rum. At least 10 available tastings:

0-30€: (Ratings from 7.7 down to 7.4)
Hampden Smith & Cross Traditional Jamaica Rum
Worthy Park 109
Chairman’s Reserve Legacy
Plantation OFTD
Saint James VSOP
Penny Blue VSOP
Pusser’s Rum Gunpowder Proof Black Label

30-60€ (Rating from 8.5 down to 8.2)
Foursquare Ferroni 2012
Compagnie des Indes Caraibes Port
Long Pond Isla del Ron 2008
HSE Parcellaire #1 2016
Hampden the Rum Mercenary & Kintra Sample Seventeen
Navy Island PX Sherry finish cask Finish
LPCH Old brothers 2019
Trois Rivieres Triple Millesime
Rum Artesanal Beenleigh 2007 12y
Mhoba Strand 101 2019S3

60-90€ (Rating from 8.8 down to 8.5)
Ferroni 2009
Grays LMDW Single Cask 2009
Hampden Hunter Laing Kill Devil 2007 (the whisky barrel)
Clement La Confrerie du Rhum 2015 3y9m
Rum Artesanal Beenleigh 2007 15y
Diamond Hunter Laing Kill Devil 2008 11y
South Pacific The Rum Cask Fiji 2001
Mhoba French Cask rum 2019FC1
Dillon Brut de Frut 2013
Beenleigh Spirit of Rum Rumclub Private Selection 2007
Clement La Confrerie du Rhum 2015 5y

90-120€ (Rating from 9.0 down to 8.7)
HSE Chateau Marquis de Terme 12y
Clarendon Flensburg Rum 1999 21y
Depaz Spirit of Rum Private Cask 11y
Rum Artesanal New Yarmouth 2009 10y3m
Saint Lucia Chairman’s Reserve Master Bar 1802 2012
Versailles Rum Nation 2004 18y
Hampden Swell de Spirits 2013 9y3m
Bielle La Compagnie du Rhum 2008 10y
Saint Lucia Chairman’s Reserve Master Rum&Co 2004 18y
New Yarmouth Compagnie des Indes 2005 2012y2m
Foursquare 2009
Foursquare 2008

120-150€ (Rating from 9.0 down to 8.8)
Clement Cuvee Speciale XO 6y
HSE Single Cask MEB 2018 2003
Clement Rare Cask non plus ultra 17y 10m
Hampden Spirit of Rum Private Selection 2009 12y
Hampden Nobilis 2013 8y
New Yarmouth Vidya The River Mumma 2005
Fiji Rum&Co Plantation 2001 19y
Hampden Whisky Jury 2007 15y
Bielle 2010 7y
Clarendon Habitation Velier EMB 2010 9y
Foursquare Nobiliary
Saint Lucia Chairman’s Reserve Master (Grape of the Art & RumX)

150-180€

to be continued

8 Likes

Can you include your metric/the rating?

3 Likes

I checked the bottle size and normed it to 0.7L. As a result, some bottles were excluded. We would need a feature for community price per litre, which takes the bottle size into account. But I recently learned that people put in prices of samples as well, which makes the whole statistical data collection somewhat pointless. When entering a community price, you would need to enter the sample size as well.

3 Likes

Ich stelle dann mal meine ersten Ergebnisse vor, da Ich gleich doch noch das gute Wetter ausnutzen werde und nicht weiß, wann Ich weitermache.

Ich habe einen gänzlich anderen Ansatz als einige vorherigen Posts gewählt: Mich interessiert das Top-Level an Rums. Das ein 30€ oder 50€ Rum preisleistungsmäßig am Besten ist, erscheint mir von vornherein unstrittig. Diese Diskussion ist in meinen Augen überflüssig.
Daher habe Ich das Ganze von oben nach unten angeschaut, Ich will wissen ob es auch im sehr hohen Bewertungsbereich vielleicht versteckte “günstige” Überraschungen gibt. Und siehe da, es gibt einige versteckte Kandidaten.

Meine Kriterien: Mehr als 25 Communitybewertungen; von oben nach unten abwärts betrachtet; Keine “Unicorns” (Flaschenpreis über 300€ oder extrem schwere Verfügbarkeit), die Flaschenpreise habe Ich auf 0,7l-Flaschen hochgerechnet.

Als Daten habe Ich die durchschnittlichen Communitybewertungen und die Communitypreise genommen. Bei den Preisen birgt dies natürlich viel Interpretationsspielraum, aufgrund von Inflation der letzten 2 Jahre, geschönten Angaben und sonstigen Ausreißern. Diese beiden Werte habe Ich ins Verhältnis gesetzt und somit zu meinem Ausgangswert zusammengeführt “Wieviel € muss Ich pro Bewertungspunkt zahlen?”

Die Ergebnisse sind nach den meisten Verkostungen in der Community sortiert, ganz oben stehen die am häufigsten verkosteten Rums ihrer Bewertungsklasse:

91 Punkte:

  • RX53440 Habitation Velier Hampden C<>H 2010 254€= 2,79€/Punkt
  • RX247 Habitation Velier Long Pond TECA 2005 223€= 2,45/Punkt
  • RX2183 Maison La Mauny Rhum Chantal Comte La Tour de l’Or 2001 240€= 2,64€/Punkt
  • RX10636 Plantation Hampden HJF 2002 192€= 2,11€/Punkt
  • RX10530 Bellamy’s Reserve Enmore 1994 REV 255€= 2,80€/Punkt

90 Punkte:

  • RX120 El Dorado Albion 2004 192€= 2,13€/Punkt
  • RX122 El Dorado Skeldon 2000 238€= 2,64€/Punkt
  • RX61 Velier Long Pond TECC 2007 165€= 1,83€/Punkt
  • RX27 Habitation Velier Hampden HLCF 2010 167€= 1,86€/Punkt
  • RX7788 RA Clarendon EMB 1995 244€ (auf 0,7 gerechnet) = 2,71€/Punkt
  • RX5934 El Dorado Diamond 1998 273€= 3,03€/Punkt
  • RX13297 Swell de Spirits TDL 2000 209€ (auf 0,7 gerechnet) = 2,32€/Punkt
  • RX9405 SBS Skeldon SWR 2001 182€= 2,02€/Punkt
  • RX9382 Isla del Ron Fiji 2001 116€= 1,29€/Punkt
  • RX344 RA Hampden 1998 HLCF 281€ (auf 0,7 gerechnet) = 3,12€/Punkt
  • RX7238 Neisson Le Rhum XO Full Proof 214€= 2,38€/Punkt
  • RX1413 Rum Nation Hampden 1992 HLCF 236€= 2,62€/Punkt
  • RX700 Depaz Small Batch 2002 221€= 2,46€/Punkt

89 Punkte:

  • RX26 Velier Royal Navy 188€= 2,11€/Punkt
  • RX12796 Saint James Les Ephémères Nr.1 121€= 1,36€/Punkt
  • RX307 Velier Long Pond TECA 2007 158€= 1,78€/Punkt
  • RX2072 El Dorado Enmore 1996 183€= 2,06€/Punkt
  • RX12147 Rumclub Hampden 2009 DOK 195€ (auf 0,7 gerechnet) = 2,22€/Punkt
  • RX7168 Flensburg Rum Company Hampden C<>H 2007 156€= 1,75€/Punkt
  • RX1146 Maison La Mauny Rhum Chantal Comte La Tour de l’Or 2006 205€= 2,30€/Punkt
  • RX10576 Swell de Sprits Hampden <>H 2011 207€ (auf 0,7 gerechnet) = 2,33€/Punkt
  • RX255 Rum Nation Enmore 1997 151€= 1,70€/Punkt
  • RX265 Flensburg Rum Company Enmore MEC 1992 249€= 2,80€/Punkt
  • RX1477 La Favorite La Flibuste 1997 245€= 2,75€/Punkt
  • RX13862 Nobilis No. 27 TDL 2001 211€= 2,37€/Punkt
  • RX13842 SBS Skeldon SWR 2001 54,1% 161€= 1,81€/Punkt
  • RX10871 Flensburg Rum Company Enmore KFM 1991 259€= 2,91€/Punkt
  • RX13155 Romdeluxe Hampden HGML 2020 200€= 2,25€/Punkt
  • RX12016 Nobilis No. 14 Hampden <>H 2013 160€= 1,80€/Punkt
  • RX15322 Asta Morris TDL 2001 155€= 1,74€/Punkt
  • RX12426 Nobilis No. 17 Saint Lucia SLD 1999 232€= 2,61€/Punkt
  • RX12160 Swell de Spirits Foursquare 2006 192 (auf 0,7 gerechnet) = 2,16€/Punkt

88 Punkte:

  • RX7547 Hampden Great House 2020 133€= 1,51€/Punkt
  • RX180 Velier Caroni Navy Rum Replica 266€= 3,02€/Punkt
  • RX113 Velier Foursquare Plenipotenziario 173€= 1,97€/Punkt
  • RX7456 Velier Foursquare Sassafras 251€= 2,85€/Punkt
  • RX416 Velier Long Pond STCE 2005 160€= 1,82€/Punkt
  • RX227 Habitation Velier Clarendon EMB 2010 136€= 1,55€/Punkt
  • RX362 Foursquare Nobiliary 122€= 1,39€/Punkt
  • RX11399 Velier Appleton Hearts 2003 243€= 2,76€/Punkt
  • RX11670 Chairman’s Reserve SLD Grape of the Art & RumX 2005 115€= 1,31€/Punkt
  • RX13230 Rumclub Depaz 2010 123€= 1,40€/Punkt
  • RX11722 Foursquare Isonomy 134€= 1,52€/Punkt
  • RX11266 Chairman’s Reserve SLD The Nectar 15th Anniversary 2005 101€= 1,15€/Punkt
  • RX391 HSE Single Cask (MEB 2019) 2003 189€= 2,15€/Punkt
  • RX10625 J. Bally Brut de Fût (LMDW) 2006 179€= 2,03€/Punkt
  • RX880 Rhum Rhum Libération Integrale 2015 234€ = 2,66€/Punkt
  • RX11183 SBS Skeldon (Milhade) SWR 1997 241€= 2,74€/Punkt
  • RX12424 Nobilis No. 15 Enmore REV 2006 160€= 1,82€/Punkt
  • RX13284 Compagnie des Indes New Yarmouth (Perola) 2009 144€= 1,64€/Punkt
  • RX9581 Maison La Mauny Rhum Chantal Comte La Tour de l’Or 2010 179€= 2,03€/Punkt
  • RX11191 Plantation Long Pond (The Nectar) CRV 1993 280€= 3,18€/Punkt
  • RX423 RA New Yarmouth 2009 139€ (auf 0,7 gerechnet) = 1,58€/Punkt
  • RX13449 MHOBA LMDW Antipodes 2017 130€= 1,48€/Punkt
  • RX9188 Valinch&Mallet Spirit of Art Long Pond VRW 2005 187€= 2,13€/Punkt
  • RX6926 Rhum J.M 2003 147€= 1,67€/Punkt
  • RX7675 Chairman’s Reserve SLD Bar 1802 2012 93€= 1,06€/Punkt
  • RX7675 Compagnie des Indes Hampden (Germany) DOK 2009 119€= 1,35€/Punkt
  • RX8122 Tamosi Karaya Port Mourant 1998 189€= 2,15€/Punkt
  • RX12021 Old Brothers Hampden HJF 2008 218€ (auf 0,7 gerechnet) = 2,48€/Punkt
  • RX10448 SBS Skeldon (The Nectar) SWR 2001 166€= 1,89€/Punkt
  • RX10630 Savanna Unshared Cask (LMDW TH1) 7y/o 193€ (auf 0,7 gerechnet) = 2,19€/Punkt
  • RX9868 The Whisky Jury Long Pond 2005 147€= 1,67€/Punkt
  • RX1012 Rum Nation Supreme Lord VII Clarendon 1991 280€= 3,18€/Punkt
  • RX3630 Bielle 2007 194€= 2,20€/Punkt

Weiter habe Ich erstmal keine Lust/Zeit, eigentlich wollte Ich bis auf 85 runter. Aber ihr seht ja, das die Daten immer mehr werden.

Bisherige Erkenntnisse/Interpretationen:
In meinen Augen doch überraschende Ergebnisse. Viele der vermuteten Abfüllungen werden aufgrund meiner Vorauswahl gar nicht berücksichtigt. Dadurch fliegen Rum Artesanal, Rum Club, Swell de Spirits, Savanna mit sehr vielen ihrer Top-Abfüllungen raus aufgrund der Flaschengröße von 0,5l, die nicht mit den 0,7ern der Konkurrenz mithalten kann. Velier schlägt sich erstaunlich gut. Die (älteren) Habitation Velier Abfüllungen gehören häufig zum PLV-besten ihrer Klasse. Aber auch Nobilis taucht überraschend mit einigen Abfüllungen auf, obwohl deren Ruf ein anderer ist.
Ab 89 abwärts übernehmen Chairmans Reserve und Foursquare mehr und mehr das Bild, dadrüber dominiert Jamaika.

ABER: der ganz klare Preisleistungs-Sieger im Top-Segment mit 90 Punkten (und Ich hatte ihn wundervollerweise schon im Glas und kann die Einschätzung voll und ganz bestätigen!):
RX9382 Isla del Ron Fiji 2001 116€= 1,29€/Punkt

Ganz oben in der 91 Punkte Klasse thront eine Plantation Abfüllung nicht ganz überraschend:
RX10636 Plantation Hampden HJF 2002 192€= 2,11€/Punkt

Thanks a lot to Gunnar and Forrest for pointing out my stupid mistake, changed it now to the (hopefully) correct version.

23 Likes

Interesting to read, thank you Tim.

Two thoughts:

  • Scientifically (as in „objectively“) you’re butchering the math behind this. The rating scale behind the ratings is not an ratio nor even arguably an interval scale but an ordinal one, denying the type of mathematical opartions you apply (eg division as there’s no agreed upon least element, distance measures as the intervals between 0/1, 81/82, 89/90 are not the same…. We had this discussion in the rating scale thread). So mathematically speaking, your sharing an opinion not an objective quantification

  • I’m not sure how you ended up with the above. The plantation OFTD is higher ranked than the pusser: it’s higher rated, it got more reviews and it satisfies all criteria (price, no dosage, etc)

I’m sure you have fun, and I certainly have reading and discussing this, just wanted to point out what I think we have here.

Cheers
Jakob

5 Likes

Basically, you should devide price py boints to have amount by point (you did the opposite). Cause it’s more logical to get less euros for the best Q/P :

  • Hampden 2002 HJF Plantation : 192/91 = 2,11€
  • Long Pond 1993 CRV Plantation Nectar : 280/88 = 3,18€
    Best Q/P is Hampden with 2,11€ rather 3,18€.

But maybe I have mistaken your point.

8 Likes

You are correct, I am stupid and will change it.
The results wont change though.

Manchmal sieht man den Wald vor lauter Bäumen nicht :innocent: :laughing:

9 Likes

@Leo Respekt für deine Mühe. Extrem geiler Beitrag

7 Likes

Danke, es hat mich eben auch selbst interessiert.

Weitere interessante Aspekte an der Betrachtung:

  • Alter spielt quasi keine Rolle. Der vielgescholtene Romdeluxe HGML 2y/o fürs GRF schlägt sich erstaunlich gut, da die Community ihn eben mit 90 bewertet und dann 200€ auf einmal fair wirken.
  • Einige der dargestellten Rums sind sogar noch über die App zu günstigeren Preisen als meiner Bemessungsgrundlage zu haben. (Ich meine z.B. der Rumclub Depaz.) Dies könnte man evtl. ja in der App darstellen durch einen PLV-Merker, das man hier sehr hohe Qualität zu einem “günstigeren” Preis als woanders bekommt. Dazu muss man aber natürlich die Berechnung genau darstellen, denn am Ende ist ja auch eine Communitybewertung mit 50 Einträgen nur höchst subjektiv.
11 Likes

Excellent summary! Thanks a lot for putting in the legwork!

Sorting ascending by price within each points “cluster” would have been sufficient imho. The €/point ratio suggests that you get a rum with one more rating point if you spend an additional 2,51€ … which is (sadly) not the case.

It’s more interesting to know “you have to spend at least x€ to get a rum with y points” and there might be overlap, i.e. at least 130€ for 90P but there’s cheaper rum in the higher points class.

One last thing is the historical nature of this statistic. As in, “what is already on the community’s shelves?”. It would be super interesting to have this statistic with prices of current offers (and/or the most recent auction results) especially for those who are new to the hobby. But I guess that is too research heavy (unless one were to use pre-made offer databases like Spirit Radar). That would be a nice “bang for your buck” buying guide :grin:

7 Likes

Mega! Danke für die Mühe :+1:

4 Likes

Hi Jakob,

  • I wouldn’t say I am sharing an opinion, nor a mathematical evaluation. You are right about the non-linear community rating from 0-10 (it’s hard to quantify a subject matter as taste in a linear way) and I was pointing out that the data coming from the app for the community price is not clean enough to do any meaningful mathematical operation with it as Leo is doing. The rating number can only be used as an indicator of order and by defining price ranges, I let the app tell me the order of applicable rums in that range. I am not going to do any math with it :smile: Comparing the ratios of Leo to each other is also problematic. Again, the value alone is meaningless, because the rating number is non-linear and the community price is distorted. In the end, you can only use the calculated ratios to make up a order to find out what is the best or worst price/quality-rum. And then you need to define price ranges, because the cheapest bottles will be the best :sweat_smile: The math won’t work. I once did the same thing Leo is doing and I realized it’s not going anywhere. That’s why I took another approach and let the app do it by sorting after rating (with help of Oliver adjustments to the app, thx again to him! :star_struck:)

  • Plantation OFTD slipped through when I went down the list and extracted some rums, darn. I added it.

Tim

6 Likes

Thanks for the effort guys! But I think the big problem here is the availability. There’s a lot of bottles out there that had a great value for money when they came out but went up in price since or aren’t available anymore.

I think it would be nice to split this into widely available releases and not so widely available (but often better) releases.

I think the Chairman’s Legacy for example was a good shout from Tim, it’s an rum that you can actually buy that offers great value for money. The IdR Long Pond 2008 is a very good rum for sure, but getting your hands on a bottle is a different story…

Same goes for the very detailed list from Leo.

I really like the idea of setting up a list like that but think that a) it has to be updated regularly (a issue that I am having with the lists in the RumX App as well) and b) that it’s only practical if you can actually get your hands on the bottles for the price that is used in the calculation.

6 Likes

I updated my list from above. Nothing spectacular new. According to the available ratings, which represent the subjective taste of the community, these rums are the best of all time in each price range, up to this very day.

3 Likes

Mein Ziel war es weder eine regelmäßig aktualisierende Liste noch einen Einkaufsguide zu erstellen. Es ging rein um die Fragestellung welche Toprums, die die Community verkostet hat, hatten den günstigsten Preis.

Verfügbarkeit ist ein ganz anderes Thema, das wir ein andernmal gerne durchdiskutieren können. Aber jemand sozial gut Vernetztes, der regelmäßig im Großraum DE, BE, LUX, FR Läden abklappert und dazu noch spiritradar, catawiki, usw benutzt hat sicher eine deutlich andere Einstellung zur “Verfügbarkeit” als Neueinsteiger, die auf RumundCo oder Amazon ihren Rum beziehen.

10 Likes

Thanks for your great research and for sharing your findings with the community - great job! :heart_eyes::tumbler_glass:

Happy to share a few more thoughts on this:

  • The release price would really be an interesting piece of additional information. However, I have some concerns about the maintenance effort and data quality - especially because there can be different output prices in different countries. Is it not possible (in the medium term) to derive the release price from the data? If the data quality here is good enough, it should be possible to calculate the price from the initial user prices, shouldn’t it?
  • But does the initial release price really add that much in this specific consideration? After all, the “current market value” reflects exactly the balance between supply and demand and thus availability, right?
  • Thanks for the note regarding the quality of data for community prices. I’ll take a closer look at the problem and refine the algorithm so that outliers (due to different bottle sizes, for example) are better detected.
  • Due to the already mentioned non-linearity of the community ratings, a grouping in buckets makes sense in my opinion. This is exactly the idea I developed with the new feature “Recommendations by price range”. What do you think about the quality of these recommendations on the start page?
12 Likes

Hi Oli,

I find the concept of average prices good enough. You guys noticed as well that, before 2021, availability and prices of many rums were much better than today. Why not take the market value into account? Sometimes it’s even impossible to find out the release price, because the bottler won’t tell.

The recommendation have been mostly uninteresting for me. But you know, I’m willing to spend even more hours on how to improve the app further - maybe in Berlin in July :slight_smile:

I’m bringing my try of the “top10 per price segment” to an end and I will post it a new thread. There are quite some learnings, which are interesting enough to share.

5 Likes

@Oliver

Thanks for your thoughts on the topic.

Are you in general considering to add a label for fair pricing in comparison to the avg. market price?

Could also be a scoring.

To me that would be a nice addition to the app and a nice outcome of the research done.

6 Likes