Prices of rums from the closed Caroni distillery shoot up to astronomical heights. Do you think this development is justified because of the special taste profile and quality or is the hype without basis?
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I believe this development is driven by speculators and not necessarily based on âactual good tasteâ. The downside is that those just wanting to drink good stuff (itâs always pretty subjective what you believe is good) suffer from these speculations. We even see similar development with distilleries still open, e.g. the latest standard LROK from Hampden Estate is about twice as expensive as a similar bottling from 2 years ago.
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Definitely a proof of how the rum market went crazy in past years with plenty of speculators entering the game - but in the case of Caroni we also face an absolutely unique and often outstanding flavor profile that no other distillery could replicate to date.
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That is absolutely true! The first time I ever tried a Caroni (Caroni 21y from Velier) it was really stunningâŠmeaning that it was something that I have never experiencedâŠflavors so unique that really opened up a whole new world! Not that everyone should like those (I am not a fan), but is still something remarkableâŠ
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ich glaube, daĂ das geheimnis beim Caroni darin liegt, das jede abfĂŒllung absolut anders ist, mal etwas sĂŒĂer, mal etwas alkoholischer und mal ganz harmonisch. aber immer mit dem dreckigen öligen teerigen geruch oder geschmack. kann sein, daĂ es daher kommt, weil auf dem gelĂ€nder der ehemaligen destillerie öfters reifen verbrannt wurden, so erzĂ€hlt man sich.
aber ein anderer punkt ist auch der, das ein Caroni mindestens 55% haben muĂ, denn sonst schmeckt er irgendwie nicht. er ist dann nur ein laues wĂ€sserchen und hat nichts mehr von seinem charakter.
und ja, der markt fĂŒr caroni rum ist in den letzten jahren verrĂŒckt geworden. die ersten flaschen habe ich 2014 und 2015 fĂŒr 80 und 110 euro gekauft. heute muĂ man fĂŒr jede dieser flaschen mindestens um die 500 euro auf den tresen legen, wenn man sie bekommt. und die preise werden noch weiter steigen, soweit die abfĂŒllungen von bestimmten abfĂŒllern sind. CaroniÂŽs von anderen abfĂŒllern oder mit weniger als 55% wird man wohl noch etwas lĂ€nger fĂŒr einen gĂŒnstigeren kurs bekommen.
@Stylo
you should try a different Caroni from a different year. there are big differences between the years and the bottles. you can try the 17 year old Caroni from 1996 (bottled in 2013) in CS with 63% (30th release) or the version with 55% (31st release) and you will have very different taste impressions.
although both were distilled and bottled in the same year and fully matured in the tropical climate.
.
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Dem kann ich nur zu 55% ⊠Àh 100% beipflichten 
So ungern ich negatives ĂŒber irgendeinen Rum sage (GeschmĂ€cker sind ja verschieden), aber die Bristol Caronis mit 40% sind im Vergleich zu den höher prozentigen Caronis tatsĂ€chlich geschmacklich sehr schwach.
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Seems like all the indies that have been or are bottling Caroni these days (i.e. last two years) think that 350-500⏠is a fair price range, while most of them are bottling 1997 or 1998 vintages.
A recent example from Spheric, that so far have not stricken me as overly expensive in their pricing:
Funny enough, there are still some bottles from 3 to 5 years ago that can be had for 200-250âŹ. I donât really understand the logic behind that. Why are people buying that new stuff while the older, cheaper bottles are still available? Are they hoping for a Velier-Level of Caroni, just because it has a higher price? I doubt that the quality of the casks that indies can get their hands on will improve much from now on. There might be the occasional gem, but 99,5% will just be average to ok-ish.
Thoughts?
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To be honest I donât even know if you can say it like that. Itâs not like every Velier rum (including their Caronis) is something godlike and fantastic on the tongue. In general I donât think the spirale will stop and weâre also not at the end yet. Due to the scarcity of these rums (and that wonât change over decades if ever) the prices can ârise like Bitcoinsâ itâs just that completely different people will then buy these rums, often not as drinkers or collectors like us but more often as an object of speculation or just because the 11th Ferrari in your garage would be boring 
The recent price policy of some bottling is really just an economic decision on the price tag and the desire to take a part of the cake ⊠itâs a simple logic I somewhat disagree that 1996 is the only good Caroni vintage as well, e.g. the last Bellamyâs (1998) was very much to my liking and price-wise pretty affordable (actually still available). Itâs almost like ⊠nah 300 only? ⊠canât be good, I wait for a 500-600 Caroni
Very true. They, too, cook with waterâŠas that German saying goes. But they got dibs on a large part of the âheavyâ stuff, so their releases are more likely to be of the kind that satisfies the customers âdesireâ or expectation of that âdirty Caroniâ profile. So I think itâs fair to say that they have a certain advantage or head start when it comes to indie bottlers, especially when Caroni or Hampden is involved. Therefore, consumer bias is kind of justified.
I think that is more likely the case. The whole âuh, itâs a Caroni, it has to be expensiveâ story. Sure the stocks can only go down from the point when the distillery closed for good. But that doesnât necessarily justify the price development. If itâs shit, it doesnât matter that thereâs only two of it left. Only when decline in availability meets a certain (constant or rising) demand, does the price increase. Of course it helps if the good is hard to substitute because it possesses a certain unique quality (flavor, in this case).
Good for you. Most reviews are rather unenthusiastic about it. Havenât tried it myself. But still, âonlyâ 330âŹ? Why not 150âŹ? Or 200âŹ? The fact that we consider 300⏠âfairâ or even âcheapâ when it comes to Caroni is the whole point. Hype. Sometimes not even justified by exceptional flavor. Just a name.
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Amen. Even the new Kill Devil Caronis are hype-priced:
Bought a couple of the 18yo 1998 for less than 250⏠a few months ago. Those were bottled 2017 and lasted several years, even at that price point. Yes it was expensive, but I figured that itâs not going to get any cheaper, so eff it. Now I see the 24yo for 550⏠and I regret nothing.
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Hm. Die habt ihr doch sicher auch gesehen. âMatured In A Barrelâ ⊠wow 
(not a fish tank!!!)
âDistilled, matured and bottled in Trinidadâ ⊠Ernsthaft? Wer hĂ€tte gedacht, dass es 2021 noch 100% tropisch gereifte (und tropisch abgefĂŒllte!) Caronis von UnabĂ€ngigen AbfĂŒllern gibt.
Mind. Blown.
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@DevidedByZero
Diese Flasche hatte ich bisher noch nicht auf dem Radar, ist auf dem Erst-Markt aber sicherlich schon ausverkauft, oder?
Falls dem nicht so ist, nimm ich die Bezugsadresse gerne via PM
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@django ja die sind so ziemlich ausverkauft. Gab glaub je ein 97er, 98er und 99er in der âSerieâ (letzterer ist noch zu haben). Das mit dem âmatured & bottled in Trinidadâ ist natĂŒrlich totaler Quatsch. Also eine ganz normale UA-AbfĂŒllung wie viele andere auch und preislich in den oberen 400âŹ.
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At the moment I do not really like or prefer the taste of Caroni. And I hope my taste wonât change because it will be too expensive 
.
P.s. Five years ago I could never believe that I would ever love an Agricole. I was wrong
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Almost the same for me but it can depend. I liked some caroni rhums (the corman collins I tried were very goog, especially, the 1998 @mto75 make me try. But for the moment, I did not really like the only 2 veliers I had the opportunity to taste : 1994 guyana stock (as for this one, I would even go so far as to say that he is finished!) and 21y more recently.
I know, I know, itâs hard to read that 
but to me, they were unbalanced and too marked by wood (menthol and bitterness). So⊠mostly bitterness, menthol , oil and rubber ⊠these are not pleasant tastes for my delicate palate! 
I think they would have been better 10 years ago, or rather, I would have preferred them 10 years ago.
More generally, tropical aging of more than 20 years is not for me the guarantee of a better rum. Because often the wood begins to take away the rest.
An other example, recently, I found the REV 2006 from SBS better than the enmore 88 from Whisky Jury exactly because of that.
(If I remember correctly, even Luca Gargano must have said something like that, for him, the optimal aging in the tropics is 8/10 years.)
Over time I realize that I spent my period of strange and certainly interesting tastes (oil, petroleum, solvents, rubber) to appreciate more and more aromas that are less original but more âpleasureâ oriented.
Same for the degree of alcohol, things over 60% I find them less and less interesting because in the end you have to wait too long to appreciate otherwise the ethanol prevents the other flavors from arriving. I find that degrees between 45 and 55% are really good, in general.
Concerning, the agricole ones, it took me a long time to get there, but today I am becoming a big fan of what I taste from Martinique (the HSE 2006 is just great for a hundred euros!).
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Didnt know where to post this, so here we go.
Bristol Spirits posted some pictures today of the transport of their Caroni barrels from the Caroni Distillery, that i wanted to share here.
Loading Containers at Caroni
With great foresight, John took the opportunity to invest in Caroni which was at the time, in the care of âRum Distillers of Trinidad and Tobagoâ. As a Government owned business, RDTT did not produce Rum as it was their business to dispose of the stock.
This amazing photo records one of the multiple shipping containers being filled with up to 66 casks each, before road movement to the Port of Spain and onto the vessel called âBenguela Steamâ.
Source: Instagram
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dazu steht da ja, dass in einen Container bis zu 66 FĂ€sser passten. ErgĂ€nzend dazu: in seinem Caroni Buch gibt Steffen ein Interview mit Carsten Vlierboom (EA Scheer) wider. Darin ist die Rede dass Bristol 66 FĂ€sser erworben habe, dazu jedoch noch 10 Container mit jeweils um die 80 FĂ€ssern ĂŒber einen Finanzinvestor
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Small remark from my side: I believe the vesselâs name should have been Benguela Stream. That vessel frequented Port of Spain during those years and also had Portsmouth in its line service (which is a logical destination for Bristol).
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Is this happening right now or they are just re-sharing some old photos? It seems to me like only couple of photo memories 
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